Tl;dr in post: be warned!
May. 17th, 2010 08:00 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
clonechildNot that anyone actually reads this, but still.
It's possible that I am far more 'Internet-shaped' than my family; I know I'm far more fandom-oriented and, as a result, far more influenced by the Internet, than they are. I also have a sometimes distressing tendency towards black-and-white thinking and can be very strict in my morality-code.
Today I got into an argument with my parents and siblings about rape. I had read a blog entry about someone who gave, iirc, workshops on how to prevent becoming a rapist rather than how to prevent being raped. And he mentioned that his philosophy was 'The opposite of rape is not consent, it's enthusiasm'.
The argument we got into at home was about the following: if you're in an established relationship and your girl-/boyfriend doesn't really feels like having sex, but doesn't stop you - instead he/she just lies there passively and does not contribute - is it rape? For me it is. There's no consent. There's no explicit lack of consent either, by which I mean there's no vocal objection. But that doesn't automatically mean he/she consents. And for me that's rape. For the rest of my family it wasn't. Instead, the argument they mostly gave was that he/she should've just said they didn't want it.
But the funny thing is, if there had been no established relationship, then they all agreed it was rape. Does being in a relationship automatically mean that you consent, and that if you do not want it, but don't speak up, you're a fool and should just get out of the relationship? My father said that if you felt like you couldn't stand up for what you wanted then the relationship wasn't a good one. And yet, apparently it's still not rape.
And, god, I feel like I shouldn't even need to tell them about how their opinion is wrong and yet I can't, because it's an opinion, and I "always think too much in black and white".
I feel like there shouldn't be any shades of gray in a situation like that.
And it might be terribly petty of me to get upset by things like that, and yet I don't even want to entertain the thought that it actually might be so.
God, it's like the whole Twilight thing all over again. "It's just a book! Why are you getting so angry about it?"
Because it sets bad examples.
"It's just a book! Nobody would actually be foolish enough to believe that stuff."
Argh. I guess I am more shaped by my fandom-experience than I thought.
On a slightly unrelated note, thanks to all the kink-discussions going around on DW, I wanted to write my thoughts down to, but I might just have to make a separate post for that. I know the whole 'your kink is not my kink and that's okay' but I still feel like a horrible human being sometimes. I guess the divide between fantasy-kinks and real-life kinks for me is even bigger than for most other people.
ETA: I know that in fic there are distinctions made between non-con, dub-con, coercive con and consensual sex. I'm just not sure those distinctions should also be made in real life. But IDK, maybe I am just too rigid.
It's possible that I am far more 'Internet-shaped' than my family; I know I'm far more fandom-oriented and, as a result, far more influenced by the Internet, than they are. I also have a sometimes distressing tendency towards black-and-white thinking and can be very strict in my morality-code.
Today I got into an argument with my parents and siblings about rape. I had read a blog entry about someone who gave, iirc, workshops on how to prevent becoming a rapist rather than how to prevent being raped. And he mentioned that his philosophy was 'The opposite of rape is not consent, it's enthusiasm'.
The argument we got into at home was about the following: if you're in an established relationship and your girl-/boyfriend doesn't really feels like having sex, but doesn't stop you - instead he/she just lies there passively and does not contribute - is it rape? For me it is. There's no consent. There's no explicit lack of consent either, by which I mean there's no vocal objection. But that doesn't automatically mean he/she consents. And for me that's rape. For the rest of my family it wasn't. Instead, the argument they mostly gave was that he/she should've just said they didn't want it.
But the funny thing is, if there had been no established relationship, then they all agreed it was rape. Does being in a relationship automatically mean that you consent, and that if you do not want it, but don't speak up, you're a fool and should just get out of the relationship? My father said that if you felt like you couldn't stand up for what you wanted then the relationship wasn't a good one. And yet, apparently it's still not rape.
And, god, I feel like I shouldn't even need to tell them about how their opinion is wrong and yet I can't, because it's an opinion, and I "always think too much in black and white".
I feel like there shouldn't be any shades of gray in a situation like that.
And it might be terribly petty of me to get upset by things like that, and yet I don't even want to entertain the thought that it actually might be so.
God, it's like the whole Twilight thing all over again. "It's just a book! Why are you getting so angry about it?"
Because it sets bad examples.
"It's just a book! Nobody would actually be foolish enough to believe that stuff."
Argh. I guess I am more shaped by my fandom-experience than I thought.
On a slightly unrelated note, thanks to all the kink-discussions going around on DW, I wanted to write my thoughts down to, but I might just have to make a separate post for that. I know the whole 'your kink is not my kink and that's okay' but I still feel like a horrible human being sometimes. I guess the divide between fantasy-kinks and real-life kinks for me is even bigger than for most other people.
ETA: I know that in fic there are distinctions made between non-con, dub-con, coercive con and consensual sex. I'm just not sure those distinctions should also be made in real life. But IDK, maybe I am just too rigid.